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Showing posts from 2014

Hi! How's Everyone?

Feeling slightly emo...not sad...just emo....

A while ago, I seemed to be immersed in a lot of deep thoughts about life, relationship, etc. And I wrote regularly.

But the current relationship and work/study in the past few months had taken away most of my time.

Miss the people here. Wondering how's everyone, and if I have missed many interesting things that are going on.

Anyway, hope to be here more often!

The Creepy Angel

It's 12.46 am.

Today: Woke up... got my usual morning kisses from Jay...kissed him back...asked for breakfast to be served...he said he could make it in 30 mins... but I told him not to...continued sleeping for like 30 mins...woke up...had char siew buns and coffee for breakfast...did my work....heated up the fried rice he put in my fridge for lunch...worked...cooked the frozen udon noodles he bought (*imported from Japan*) with beef balls and eggs for an early dinner...worked...Jay came at 8pm just now...and we went out for a quick dessert...came back...watched a travel show on YouTube...cuddled a bit...he had to leave at around 11pm...

So this is Jay
>>> he normally wakes up earlier than me because he has to go work, and every morning, I would wake up to morning kisses on my WhatsApp...unless we argued the day before (but even if we did, he would normally still send me kisses).

>>>He doesn't mind driving 30 mins to my place, just to see me...He would never …

Leave me alone

I asked Jay to leave me alone. I whatsapped him after our usual nightly call. 
Part of me was frustrated at him. How could he just ask me to rest early (after having talked just like 10 mins, we normally do more than 30 mins) when I told him I was having headache. on hindsight, maybe he really wanted me to get more rest? 
I said I was confused with myself (still am actually). Sometimes I feel very much loved and blessed to have him, but sometimes I feel frustrated, annoyed or even angry at him. 
I think I am creating too many expectations. I am like a prince (or princess?) wanting the best for everything from him. I want all his attention (when I want it), I want him to exceed my expectations if possible. I want him to always be sensitive and considerate without the need for me to ask for it. 
I think I am asking for too much. 
After all, we've only been together for like half a year? And we are not even married. Even if we are married, I shouldn't be excessive with my wants I…

End-of-Year Travelling

We've been 'planning' (more like thinking) our end-of-the-year trip to South East Asia.

Big drama (he said it was a 'discussion') over the weekend. I was so disappointed and upset when he answered yes to my question: 'So will you still go if I decided not to go?'

I don't know what eventually made me to 'let it go' and to convince myself that he still cares and loves me. I think his answer did make me feel as though I was not important enough to make him change 'just' his travel plans. (Perhaps travelling is like a super important thing for some people?) I don't know. Just didn't like the fact that my feelings/well-being got ranked behind his travel plans.

Anyway, since I chose to let it go, I might as well forget about what he did/we did on the weekend.

We finally made some flight bookings just now. Some. Yes, some. Why? Because I think, it's a bit complicated with the way we are doing it. Not that I want to do it this way, b…

Love=Like? Safer to love less?

Sometimes, I wonder if it's actually better to love less. To love Jay less.

What if he doesn't love me as much as he used to anymore?

People view love (as a verb) differently.

I love (like) you dear.  vs. I love (like) going to church.  vs. I love (like) teaching, etc.
Maybe, I use 'love' only occasionally. Whereas, for him, love is like 'like'? I am just saying maybe.  
Sometimes, you just don't know if he loves you As Much as you love him, even though he tells you 'I love you dear" all the time. 
Even worse, sometimes, what he says casually left me wondering just how different we could actually be. 
For example (just an example), I have always thought that he wanted so much to be with me on the weekends that he reserved 90% of his time for me. But actually, as he unwittingly implied in our conversation some time later, he did it because he was 'afraid' that I would be angry at him for not spending time with me. 
Sometimes, things you say unwit…

Plane Spotting

9.47 pm Sunday night.
Listening to Wanting as I type. Had leftover chinese sausage fried rice for dinner. Dearest Jay was here the afternoon, sent him to the station before dinner time. 
It's a pretty nice weekend. Except Friday night, as I messed it up a little myself. I was feeling tired, mentally and physically already by the time we met up. Anyway, we argued  discussed about my future plans. Mainly because I was worried that my future plans would not progress in the most ideal way I had hoped it to be and that financially, I couldn't earn as much as him. And the other issues surrounding this. I have to say that if not for his rather high level of tolerance, he would either have killed me or left me already. 
In my last post, I complained about him. Can't really remember now what it was exactly, but I think it was about how he failed to communicate with me effectively and/or me having to guess what his plans were...Anyway, I think he has been forced to considered my com…

Not sensitive

I am feeling annoyed for no real reason.

Actually it's since last night. I was dismayed by his lack of sensitivity and reciprocation. How could he just leave like that. I know it was late, but honestly i felt a bit degraded.

Should I tell him? But how? Perhaps it's just a one-off and hence it's not necessary to bring it up unless he repeats it?

He probably didn't realise I feel offended, and am still feeling the resentment.

He is usually sensitive but why?

What's worse is that he probably thinks I am fine and did not even call me until I did so this afternoon. Well I told you I got to do my readings in the afternoon, but you could still ask me out for dinner.

Totally not in the mood to do anything. It is tormenting having to guess what the other person is thinking/doing/feeling.

I need a stress ball or a punching bag right now!

You Are Amazing!

DearEST Jay, you are just so amazing!!! <3
This is a picture of what I found laying on the floor the yesterday morning when I came home from the airport. Just as most people who fly economy, I was exhausted as sleeping on the plane was impossible. I was also feeling a bit stressed knowing that I would have to deal with the mess I left behind before I left for Malaysia. 
I moved, just a few days before I went home. It took me the entire week, to move stuff over bit by bit. And FYI, stuff that I managed to move here only constitutes 30% of all my assets in my old room. I threw out a lot of stuff. 
Before I left, I had only spent a night at my new place (with Jay, refer to one of my previous posts). 
I was planning to 'close one eye', shower, and sleep straight away and deal with the mess later. 
I found a candle and a piece of paper. It took me a few seconds to realise that I didn't write/put the note on the floor myself before I left. Perplexed, I noticed Jay's sign…

A Little Summary

Have been writing less these days. It also means that I am spending less time summarising, thinking, reflecting, and communicating.

Studies: DONE for this level, but not finished yet. Got my results about a week ago (14 July?). Not tip-top, but OK la. I think as I grow older, I am more able to accept an outcome, even if it's not what I have wanted or hoped for.

I was in the lounge room at my old place, and was chatting with a housemate while I was on my way out to have breakfast. We were talking about the release of results on the new student portal. He said he got his, and so I tried it once again, and I saw my results. I couldn't speak literally. Not sure if he could sense anything. And without saying anything, I left the house and walked to my favourite cafe in the icy cold winter morning.

My mind was full of self-consoling words. Indeed, what more can I ask for. From 0 to xx. I was literally at 0 a year ago. And maybe 10, 3 months before the thesis was due. In the last 3 to…


The last couple of days were spent with Jay's friends from overseas. Felt good that he actually entrusted his friends to me for a day.

Also, more importantly, I saw how generous and kind he was to his friends, even though they were not that close.

There was a bit of 'drama' on the last day, most probably because I was stressed with the upcoming transitions. But hey, I still managed to pull through, and fortunately he did too. He's matured and considerate, most of the time la.

And one thing I really like about him is that he knew how to make me feel that he cared about me, when we were out with friends. He would hold my hands when we had the chance to, he would cut some food and put on my plate, etc. SO SWEET <3

Just got my results today. Not the best, but satisfactory la. Slightly disappointed at first, but I told myself that I should be grateful. I was literally at point zero six months ago. Now that I have successfully completed my course, not with flying colours,…

Our Firsts!

My first time running outdoor in Winter.

Our first time running together.

Our first sxx. Satisfying. Loving. Actually his first too.

Since I submitted my thesis, we have been going out and seeing each other a lot.

We bake together. Going out with his girlfriends. I cooked him dinner the other night (soup + another dish).

There was a bit of drama the other night. Probably I was too tired cooking and working, I was a bit emo and didn't want to talk to him. Kept pushing him away. Till the point he got annoyed and left my place at 6/7am. I went back to sleep till 10am. Dreamed about myself not letting him leave, but I didn't actually do anything when he was leaving. Anyway, I called him when I got up and thankfully he didn't ignore my call.

With Jay, there's always maturity and patience. He can be annoying at times, like standing behind me and 'supervised' me cleaning my room.

I think he's really my man:)

I am free!

Submitted my thesis last week. Worked till 6am, sent my final draft to my supervisor, and went to bed. Didn't really sleep though, as I set my alarm at 8am, and by then, my supervisor had already emailed me the final edits required. I incorporated the final changes, and saved a few copies to my pen drives, to dropbox, before I showered and headed off to uni to print.

Deadline was at 12pm, I was at the print shop at around 10.30am. It was a super cheerful asian lady. The print shop was empty, probably because it was Stuvac. Printed the entire thing in colour, cost me a fortune. But luckily the lady kindly gave me some discounts, so nice of her.

Took a few photos of them before I handed them in. Uni is finally over!!! ...OR probably not??!

One of the best things being with Jay, is that he is interesting. He's smart. Because, you know, I am already smart, so I need someone smarter for some stimulation. (Just kidding!! :-p)

I called him right after I finished posting the photos on…

Video: Happy Dad's Day

Today is father's day? Opps...I am too busy to care...vomiting blood + words trying to complete my thesis!!! due Wednesday!!!

Anyway, I am sure there are plenty of good sons like you out there.

SO I want to share this with you. Jay shared this with me. (Proper referencing you see!)

I got no guts to share this on my FB haha!

Feel Loved

Ahh...I am so not productive today. 
Probably I slept late last night (2am, as I worked till quite late amending my work). 
Today, there was a house meeting at the place I live. Had to go coz it's 'compulsory', but anyway I had my laptop with me, didn't bother! 
Feeling stressed, and have been telling myself not to, because being stressful doesn't help a thing. 
Have also been telling myself that ' what's between me and success/completion, is myself.'
Hopefully tomorrow will be super duper productive. Two weeks to submission. 
Jay came over just now! I told him that I was tired and needed massage coz my neck felt like it was going to break. Too much staring at the computer. 
Bought myself a laptop stand, hopefully it will be delivered by tomorrow as promised. 
Oh, back to Jay. He brought me so much stuff! Like he was going to the temple! Haha..coz there were cakes & bread & biscotti that he baked, a 'kuih' that his mum bought, and a mand…


Texted Jay yesterday afternoon and asked if he was still available for dinner. He asked me about it the night before but I said it would have to depend on my progress...
Didn't make much progress yesterday as sleep wasn't that good, slept too late I guess after my Happy Friday. 
Anyway, we went to this really nice place for dinner. Rump steak, Pork Belly. He always knows where to go and what to order. The food he ordered was always better than mine, and he picked the right places too..unlike me :( 
After dinner, we came back to my suburb and I brought him to this gelato place and we had a walk around the park. It wasn't too cold at night, as Sydney is unusually warm these few weeks at this time of the year. 
We went back into his car to chat a bit and then we adjourned to my room LOL. 
For the first time, we were naked in front of each other. For the first time, there were tongues involved. For the first time, we cum-ed. 
It was already 1.30 in the morning, and after showe…

I had a great day!

I didn't know it was going to be a great day when i woke up this morning.

In fact, sleep was so bad last night. My balls were so dry and was so itchy and prevented me from falling asleep. [too much information maybe?]

And I had nightmare. My 'boss' at work who is like a super patient guy normally yelled at me in the dream.

Went to see my supervisor. Halfway through the meeting, another prof. appeared and told me that I could be excused from the class next week! it's a class which is super not helpful to me at this stage. Gah, finally, though it's only 3-4 hours and it's only for next week, I m still happy.

And terms of my work, my supervisor was happy with some parts and not so much with the other parts, so I have a lot more to do tomorrow. it's only like 2.5 weeks left. And I still have many chapters which i haven't even started writing!!!

But sometimes I really glad that I have this supervisor. And what she said today really made my day. 1) S…

Have you ever lost touch with someone you loved?

Was on the phone with Jay last night and I was telling him how guilty I felt for feeling horny, and how I shouldn't have watched porn a few days ago because that made me think about sex, guys all the time!

So he asked me to delete my porn! and after lengthy negotiation, he said it's ok for me to leave one and delete the rest. But I still couldn't see the point. As long as I have porn, and as long as I watch it, I feel horny, I masturbate, I feel guilty as I wasted time, and as I wasted energy that could be well spent on my thesis...

So I didn't delete the Masaki porns which I recently got addicted to. Don't you think Masaki is 'just right'? Not unrealistically hunky, but amazingly good at sex, especially the explosive jets at the end.

And I told him it's actually JackD that's distracting me. Coz when I feel bored, restless, distracted, I would look at JackD, checking out Masaki-like guys in Japan!

So, he asked me to delete JackD. But I told him no, …

One month to SUBmission!

Yes, 1 more month to thesis submission.

I was so stressed the other night. I realised I could masturbate twice with a few hours apart. I watched porn when I was stressed. And then I felt more stressed, plus a bit of guilt, that the time spent on porn and masturbations could have been used on writing my thesis.

The hardest part about writing a thesis, is not really about writing, but the planning, the structuring before actual writing could take place.

I breathed a sigh of relief yesterday after seeing my supervisor, as she seemed to like my way of structuring the literature review. I was quite stressed before seeing her. Lots of what-if questions over my mind. What if she said it's not 'quite' right (notice the use of quite, because even a small hiccup now can drive me crazy, as I am running out of time!).

So, she 'approved' it, and asked me to write them down. I am quite afraid of writing to be honest. Academic writing, and especially when it's forming part of…

5th May, It's been a year.

Yes, it's been a year, 365 days since I was first put on PEP.

I don't think including a hyperlink here is necessary. Most of you would know what happened, as it constituted the majority of posts here.

My day was mostly spent on reading journal articles, two of them actually. Very dense articles. I think I will have to spend a lot of time reading them again tomorrow, before I can put those ideas in my own words and fit them into my thesis.

Also, was on the phone with Jay just now. He was teaching me how to make spaghetti bolognese.

This is unknown to Jay. This space, this event. I texted him this morning that I wanted to tell him more, as he did voice it to me last night that it seemed like he still didn't know enough of me. I asked him to remind me next time he sees me.

It's strange that I am okay to share this with people whom I have never even met. But with Jay, after having talked about so much stuff, I still haven't quite told him about my dark past.

Thank you …


Just a quick update.

Went to the city a few hours ago to shop for winter clothing. Winter is looming. These days the mornings can be as cold as 10-13 degrees already.

I am a noob when it comes to fashion. Like seriously. Also, I don't really care. This is especially so when I am not dating anyone.

I will go out with the same cotton jacket every time. But i make sure it's clean. Being a bit OCD when it comes to hygiene, I wash everything after wearing them once only.

The jacket (or hoodie to be precise) that I am wearing was purchased two years ago. I did buy new ones from time to time (a knitted jacket from GAP, a wool jacket from ZARA, a leather one from mum) but I don't really like them because I can't wash them as easily and as frequently as the cotton ones.

Hence, the potential pool of jackets that I would buy is severely limited.

Anyway, I bought a PUFFER VEST today, (just found out what it's called after I got home from the magazine).

I noticed they were eve…

How Much to Share Your Stress

Just before I went to bed last night, I had a look at the calendar on my phone.

In about six weeks, I will have to submit my thesis. I panicked, and maybe it was a panic attack. My heart started pumping really fast, I couldn't sleep, I was in so much fear and anxiety.

It's not that I had never realised how much time I had got. But last night, the realisation really struck me.

It's not about the quality, it's really about completion now. As long as I complete it, I still have a thesis.

But without good sleep, a day is not really day. I can't think and structure my thoughts properly, let alone writing well.

I started to consider if I should stop my part-time job. I started to think if I should tell Jay that I should stop seeing him for a while.

Not that I think he's distracting me so much, but more about I will become 'a burden' (check out Tuls' post today) to him.

I don't want to share too much of my worries and stress with him. But if we are dat…

New Chapter of My Life?

Had this random thought the other day: Could Jay be a new chapter of my life? 
I think I can let go of my ex already...It's not entirely because of Jay's appearance. It's a combination of different things. I am getting more occupied with Uni work, part-time job. I am not as paranoid. I think I am recovering. 
Having known my ex was definitely a chapter of my life. So many things have happened, either directly or indirectly related to him. 
I have gone through the darkest period of my life. I survived. Because of God. Because of the trust and support from my family (though they still don't know what happened to me until today), and because of many of you here, who were willing to lend me your ears (or eyes). 
As much as I am nervous about the uncertainties ahead, I am happy that I am moving away from the dark days. 
And now, amidst the stress and uncertainties, Jay appeared. 
He's not the type that would message me endlessly. If there's a need to talk, he prefer…

You have dry lips :*

We met up for dinner yesterday. I was so exhausted by evening as I had two meetings in the afternoon, things to do in the morning, and poor sleep the night before. I felt like I could just fall asleep sitting on the bus. 
But it was arranged, plus I wanted to see him la. Also, maybe I wanted to try to be like Williamnyk, so to many things in one day haha. 
Good that he was thinking of having a hair cut, so he didn't have to wait for me doing nothing. 
He suggested German, as he had this voucher and said that he's been and the food was quite good. 
I think I had never had German previously?? 
I was expecting like a fine-dining European setting, but it was actually like an everyday cafe, except that it's serving German food. Business was good. Crowd was mostly Whites. 
Germans are famous for their beer, and they had a long list of beers for us to choose from. We didn't know which one was which, so we just asked for recommendations. He had the darker one. When he asked f…



I want to write about Jay.

Hmm..i don't have supernatural powers so I don't know how things will be like a month or a year from now. But I believe it's always better to pen my thoughts down for the moment as they are still fresh.

How many time have we gone out.

1st time meeting him, we had chinese food and we walked to a random cafe for coffee and cake where I told him quite a lot about me.

2nd time, we had Din Tai Fung and we ordered quite a lot. No pics unfortunately as the lighting wasn't really good for photos. For dessert, I ordered a tiramisu and a red velvet but he was too full already to have them. Wasted food. But I was kinda happy that day as I just got some $$.

3rd time, it was last Thursday, the day before Good Friday. He decided the place this time. It was Thai. The food was okay. We had turmeric spatchcock and Pad Thai and some rice paper rolls as starters (should be viet right? I don't know). For dessert, we walked to the Star casino, which was …

Revamping my work space

Ok, just a short post.

Sleep wasn't good last night. Had to wake up early (8am) to get ready for the 9.30am meeting with supervisor. Took the cab, still 15 mins late. Bad time management.

Had another work meeting at 1pm. Only had less than 10 minutes to gulp down the Beef Donburi. Lasted for 2 hours, and thank God I was able to pay attention.

Right now I am feeling groggy from the lack of sleep but I want to finish posting this.

I had been wanting to redesign my work space, to allow me to sit ergonomically while working on my computer (laptop).

Naughty Prince sent me some guides on how to arrange for an ergonomic work station.

But I was having some cash flow problem previously. Now that I have got some $$ on hand, I can't wait but to go on a shopping spree haha!

So, you got to visualise this yourself, as I don't have the guide with me, it's all in my mind. The simplest rule is that, (maybe for me) is to keep my elbows close to the sides of my torso. And the forearms s…

Distraction/ Attraction

This post is overdue.

So, other than reading and writing, and a bit of working, I think I am also distracted by Jay.

So, the other day, he asked if he was a distraction to me. So I replied, ' are..more attraction'. I think I said it?

He also said that he 'knows', but wanted me to focus on my studies.. So I am assuming he knows.

And being a thinker, I can't help but to think about stuff that haven't even happened yet.

Like, what if I am really distracted by him? What is he doing now? Will he message me if I don't message him? Will I again fall into the 'trap' of loving someone too deeply.

And I am also reminded of this thing that David told me (not sure if it's true though), that we should never love someone too much. If I have 100% of love, then it's probably best to give maybe 50% of that to your bf/partner.

By the way, I masturbated just half an hour ago. I found it hard to be focused, and I knowingly allowed myself to w…


Jay: Hi there (21 March 2014, 10:30:34pm )

That was the very first point of contact. Two days later, we moved over to WhatsApp. We have been out for two times.

He is different in many ways. And he didn't strike me as a super hot guy.

He asked me to describe myself with 3 words. So I replied, 'family oriented, forgiving, anxious'. How many gays would care to ask?

He is 'easy going, independent, and adventurous'.

The first time we met, was in the city. He came straight after work. It wasn't hard or awkward for us to chat when we first met up face to face, as we had talked quite a bit on WhatsApp.

Dinner was at a Chinese place. Neither of us had tried the food there. No pictures but we had eggplants and kimchi pork as far as I can remember. I actually can't remember where the restaurant is now, probably I was too nervous to notice? Haha.  We just talked and talked and talked. No love at first sight, at least from my part.

And then we went to a dessert place. A…

I dodged A kiss

It was Thursday night.

I probably only had 2-3 hours of sleep on the previous night, as I was working till 1.30am for a draft to be sent to my supervisor. Might be the stress, or I-dun-know, anyway I woke up 10-ish and freshened myself up so that I could go to uni to meet with her.

I didn't want to do anything productive after the meeting. I wanted to give myself time off, to just relax, play dota, watch porn, wank, etc.

Then I remembered there was this guy whom I had chatted with several days ago. He lives in the same neighbourhood as me. So I texted him and asked what he was doing...where he was...and when I found out that he was actually at home, I asked if he wanted to come out to just meet, and chat (and I wasn't expecting any sex ok! like 100% honest). He said yes.

His place is like 500meters away, or more than that, it was actually further away than I initially expected. There he was, waiting for me across the traffic light.

He actually looked so different compared to h…

If you fail to plan

If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

AND, be mindful of the moment, where you are at, and what you are doing.

There are the two things that I picked up yesterday, during a 'group activity' at the place I live.

Like I've said before, I was kinda different compared to how I am now. Especially during Form 4 and Form 5, I was very determined to be the best student. I am constantly making plans to study and I felt good after doing the revisions. Sometimes, my mum would walk past my room and stood just outside the door, quietly observing me studying, and probably feeling proud of how hardworking her son was.

Also, be mindful of the present. Think about why am I here (why am I in Australia? Why am i living in this accommodation? How long have I been here? What is the time now? Eh, I am typing out a blog post now...etc)

Think about the goals in the short term (complete my degree), in the medium term (where to settle down, what to do...)

In 2013 at least, I wasn't doi…

I am horny

Emailed my supervisor yesterday, asking for the meeting scheduled today to be canceled because I haven't done enough preparation/work to meet with her yet. 
I was super nervous in the past few days as I got an email from one of the firms, asking me to complete an online interview. 
So I couldn't work on my research and had to spend time, thinking about questions they might ask me so that I could prepare the answers! 
Luckily my friend was very helpful and generous with sharing her experience with me, and a 'new friend' I met on Jack'D that gave me some very useful tips too. 
I had about 7 days to work on my research (as i meet with my supervisor weekly). The first 4 days just burnt, because I was lazy. The remaining 3 days, because of the interview. So I am one week behind my schedule now!!
The supervisor replied this morning, saying it was ok to call off the meeting, but she asked 'do you mind telling me what you did during the week?'. I haven't replie…

Coming Out

This is a Taiwanese show talking about parents' and the children's perspectives on the issue of coming out. 
I really feel like getting to know these individuals and giving them a hug. They are just so beautiful. We are beautiful. To 99.99 % of us, being gay is not a choice. And by listening to their coming out experiences, I feel affirmed and am glad that we are not just sexual beings, and we should never walk down the path of being obsessed with cocks and 6-packs, we still belong to a wider society and deep down, it's our families that we want to gain acceptance from. 
I love coming out stories. They are so precious in my opinion, almost more important than my first sexual encounter. 
And there's one point raised by one of the guests in the show. 
'If children born with disabilities are often given names/ treated by their parents as angels, as special gifts from God, then why can't parents whose children are gays view their children as special rather than ab…

Not ready to love

Naming a blog post can be difficult, especially for a blog like this, where I normally write about daily/trivial/boring stuff. (So you guys have nothing better to do than to read my blog? LOL)

It's especially at times like this that I feel like writing.

I am feeling kinda lost. I hope by writing i can somehow straighten my thoughts a bit.

Woke up.
Had breakfast. (Two slices of multigrain with Nutella plus Coffee)
Lazed around a bit on the bed, checking phone, FB, instagram, twitter, emails, whatsapp, etc.
Washed up.
Went to work.
At work, did a bit of this and that. Lazed around, bought lunch and ate in the office. Lazed around, finished work.
Tried to nap. Ex msged me.
Can't sleep.
Feeling weird.
Feeling disrupted.
Had dinner. Didn't feel like studying.
Wanted to play Dota, but had internet connection problem.
Fixed problem. Insisted on playing at least a game.
Feeling guilty.
Had shower. Writing this now. And it's 11.20pm already.

I did a rough calculation the other …